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“We have a very short time on this planet and you have to do what enables you to live with yourself.”

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The Journey In Between

An Interview with Jason Lewis


Jason Lewis is an award-winning author, adventurer and sustainability campaigner specializing in human-powered expeditions. He is recognized by Guinness World Records as the first person to circumnavigate the Earth without using motors or sails: walking, cycling, and inline skating five continents; kayaking, swimming, rowing, and pedalling a boat across rivers, seas, and oceans. Taking thirteen years to complete, the 46,505-mile journey was hailed “the last great first for circumnavigation” by the London Sunday Times. We sat down mid November and interviewed him.

FIRST, LET’S START WITH THE BASICS SO PEOPLE GET TO KNOW YOU A LITTLE BETTER… WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE MOVIE?

“Withnail and I” an obscure black comedy starring Richard E. Grant.

FAVORITE BOOK?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig.

WHAT KIND OF MUSIC DO YOU LIKE? PARTICULAR SONG?

I used to sing in bands in London that played indie rock/pop/grunge. Lately, I’ve been listening to Alison Krauss, John Pine and Johnny Cash.

WHAT IS A FAVORITE QUOTE THAT WE CAN USE FOR OUR PAGE?

“Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify, simplify!” Henry David Thoreau. This quote is now more pertinent than ever in light of human-induced climate change and [for] any hope of attaining global sustainability.

“Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify, simplify!”

WHAT ITEM CAN YOU NOT TRAVEL WITHOUT?

Teabags. I’m still a Brit at heart.

DO YOU HAVE A MENTOR OR SOMEONE YOU LOOK UP TO?

José Mujica, rebel turned president of Uruguay. He donates 90 percent of his salary to charity, drives a 25-year-old VW Beetle, and lives in a rundown house with his wife and three-legged dog instead of the presidential palace. Why can’t we have more politicians like him?

IS THERE SOMEPLACE YOU’VE ALWAYS WANTED TO GO AND WHY?

Antarctica. Just because it’s completely different to any environment I’ve ever experienced. But I wouldn’t want to fly there; sailing, or perhaps by human power.

THE RELATIONSHIP QUESTION:  WHERE DID YOU MEET YOUR PARTNER TAMMIE AND IS SHE AS ADVENTUROUS AS YOU?

I met Tammie in a dark period of my life, after I’d turned down a six-figure deal with HarperCollins for my circumnavigation story. I was living in a car in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, mentally on the edge, struggling to write the thing myself (I’m dyslexic, an added complexity). Tammie encouraged me to not give up, to keep writing, and has been a continual support throughout. When no other publisher wanted to touch the manuscript after the HarperCollins debacle, she set up an independent publishing company to publish the trilogy, which has to date won six major literary awards.

WHAT WAS THE 15-YEAR OLD JASON LEWIS LIKE AND WHO DID HE LOOK UP TO OR ASPIRE TO BECOME?

I’ve always identified with the underdog.  Growing up I had 2 older sisters and I was an Army brat so we moved around quite a bit.  My mother was brought up in Kenya and her father (my grandfather) was a white hunter, which is how he made his living. He ended up being killed by a cape buffalo, one of the most dangerous animals in Africa.  We have a family history of being on the edge of society – pioneers – my grandparents [moved] out of Africa at a time of unrest between wars.  So growing up I absorbed some of that slightly eccentric behaviour I suppose, because that’s what people do when they’re in remote areas.  Quite a non-conventional childhood that I was very grateful for and because of this, at my core, I’ve always identified with the underdog.

SO IDENTIFYING WITH THE UNDERDOG… I THINK THAT IT’S RARE TO HAVE THAT PERSPECTIVE AT AN EARLY AGE.  WAS THERE A PARTICULAR MEMORY THAT STANDS OUT?

I remember going to a horse race when I was around 15 and we were going to place a bet on these horses – it was an amateur point to point race. I remember my mom pointing out all these incredible and beautiful looking animals in the paddock before the race.  She herself was a real horse racing connoisseur because she was a jockey when she was younger.  She said you want to place your bet on an animal that has the best breeding and lots of money spent on training.  And there was this scrawny grey horse that clearly was not in the same league as any of the other horses in the race.  So I put what little pocket money I had on this horse because I thought supporting a favorite is so predictable and boring and wouldn’t it be great if this horse that really was not in contention won?

I love people who take on the impossible, who defy convention and say you know what, just because I’m not an expert in this area, or don’t have loads of experience I am going to do this anyway and I’m going to prevail.  It’s that spirit – people who take on unlikely challenges and then succeed – those people have always inspired me and I think in turn they inspire other people and lift them up to do something exciting.

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I COULDN’T AGREE WITH YOU MORE.  SO ABOUT THE UNDERDOG AND PEOPLE WHO PUSH THEMSELVES IN UNCONVENTIONAL WAYS – WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT COMES FROM? IS IT ABOUT BEING SELF-CONFIDENT OR PERHAPS AN INNATE HUMAN DESIRE TO SEEK ADVENTURE AND EXPLORE?

I don’t know really.  I was probably one of the most unconfident teenagers you could imagine and I always felt like an outsider—something of a misfit.  When I was at high school, I never really fit in with the ‘in’ crowds.  We are very tribal as a species and it is more sophisticated now, but I don’t think that innate human behavior has changed much since we were living in caves, which sounds simplistic, but people tend to be driven by ideas, beliefs, behavioral patterns that certain trend setters have set in motion.

Today, we follow the media and people we see on the big screen and television because they are perceived as our role models.  However I don’t think they are necessarily always the best role models.  Where it comes from?  I consider myself one of those people that never fit in where sometimes being an outsider is a curse… [pause] but I’m OK with it now because I’ve found a way to challenge my skill set such as it is to something I can believe in, [while] making a productive contribution towards society and that I can make a living with.  I don’t make tons of money but I can put food on the table, pay my bills, and I think the most important thing to do with our lives is to make something for ourselves we can live passionately for.  If you have all the money in the world and [you’re] not believing in what you are doing then that is soul destroying—it’s really about doing what you love—that is the trick.

“If you have all the money in the world and not believing in what you are doing then that is soul destroying.”

YOU WERE 26 AND HAD A WINDOW WASHING BUSINESS BEFORE YOU STARTED YOUR JOURNEY IN 1994.  HOW DID YOU GO FROM WINDOW WASHING TO SUCH A HUGE DECISION TO TRAVEL AROUND THE WORLD BY HUMAN POWER…THAT JUST DOESN’T HAPPEN OVER NIGHT?

I think it was the prospect of traveling. In fact I’d been to Kenya when I first left school so I had an appetite of what traveling can do in terms of opening your eyes to larger horizons than the ones you’ve been brought up with.  British society can be very prescriptive depending on what strata of society you were born into, and it determines a lot in your life in terms of your career, who you marry, what clothes you wear, political beliefs you hold, and I found that so utterly depressing—that we were largely a product of our conditioning.  When my friend Steve proposed this idea of traveling around the world he was bored with his office job and I had this window washing business to pay for college and was also in this band that was really crap and wasn’t going anywhere.  We were both interested in travel and the idea of going by human powered pace to learn more about ourselves and the wider world was exciting to us. We agreed that it would take us 3 or 4 years to complete the journey.

IT LOOKS LIKE THAT WAS A GREAT DECISION YOU MADE IN TERMS OF HOW IT AFFECTED YOU AND OTHER PEOPLE?

Yes well at the time it seemed like a terrible decision in the eyes of my family and friends.  There was no safety net, no guarantee of money or anything tangible people could relate to so in many ways it was a real step into the void of the unknown…but at some point you have to take a leap of faith and believe that it will work out somehow.

WHAT IS THE BEST PIECE OF ADVICE YOU HAVE EVER RECEIVED?

Um…that’s a really good question – a very good question actually. I think the best advice  (I am not sure where it came from) but it was to not get too fixed on your goal which is also a paradox because you need a goal to set off on your dream in the first place, but along the way the journey involves being able to let go of the goal.  We can have a very fixed idea of how we want the future to be and [of our] expectations.  But they can be barriers to progress and success.  I think one of the biggest keys to success is to know when to let go of the vision or your expectations and let nature takes it course.  You either have to sort of go with the flow because circumstances and events can affect what was originally intended.  So that was advice that helped me be really successful in this journey around the world. You have to adapt and roll with the punches.  You will get there in the end but you will end up taking a different path to what you originally intended.

I IMAGINE THERE IS A CHALLENGE IN NOT GOING DOWN A PATH AND PURSUING THE ORIGINAL GOAL, AND THE POSSIBILITY OF LIVING WITH THAT REGRET?

Yeah, that’s an excellent point. I think you need to be able to learn from your mistakes and next time say, I’m going to do it differently and do it better next time.  But the rest of the emotional baggage, self-flagellation, brow beating…you have to cut that loose because it’s going to get in the way.  You have to find the balance of taking what’s useful and moving forward.  Regret is never helpful.

ON YOUR JOURNEY ACROSS AMERICA YOU HAD A CAR CRASH IN COLORADO WHERE YOU BADLY BROKE ONE OF YOUR LEGS YET YOU PERSEVERED THROUGH IT.  HOW MANY MORE YEARS DID YOU HAVE TO GO ON YOUR ADVENTURE THEN?

Well it took me another 11 years at that point…

SO WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND AT THAT POINT THAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO CONTINUE AND DETERMINE THAT THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY?

So when I was lying in bed and woke up after the initial surgery and the surgeon said that my left leg might have to be amputated below the knee, I really started to have to seriously think about life as an amputee.  To continue the expedition, if I did, how much more worry would I put my family and mother through, and it was that point where I thought maybe it was time to go home and give up this ridiculous idea.  And I just thought, I’m going to give it some time and fortunately my surgeon let me stay at his mountain ranch to recuperate.  So it was this random act of kindness by the surgeon that let me have some time to reflect on why I was doing this journey.  This was when my reasons changed for doing it.  I realized it was not about me conquering the world and waving a flag at the end.  I was realizing that Mother Nature will always kick your ass until you learn some humility.  Even though it was a car accident, what lay in front of me was out of my control.  So while I healed I went in my wheelchair and gave talks to local elementary and middle schools.  It was those school visits and working with teachers on developing a curriculum around the adventure, that gave me an ulterior reason for doing the journey when my leg did finally heal.

So this comes back to that paradox.  If that man had not hit me on the road and I didn’t have the time to reflect on my mortality and what was really important about the adventure, I would have probably gotten bored part way through the pacific and not continued like my partner ultimately did. So the lesson there was that everything happens for a reason.  You have to take the learning experience from what might at the time seem to be an awful terrible thing but turns out to be a blessing in disguise.

“I was realizing that Mother Nature will always kick your ass until you learn some humility.”

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW THAT GAVE YOU A TIME TO REFLECT IN A VERY VISCERAL WAY…

Yes…adventure can be an obsession.  In America, it seems like people are obsessed with mountains especially about Everest.  People seem to be driven to getting to the top of the mountain at all costs.  It’s not really about the top of the mountain; it’s about the journey in between.  I believe that really is the journey of life…the top of the mountain needs to be there in the first place to have a goal to reach but ultimately it’s about learning and understanding the reasons why you are on the journey that starts from the bottom to the top of the mountain.

THAT IS INTERESTING AND LEADS ME TO ONE OF THE QUOTES YOU HAVE SAID I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHICH IS FROM PAUL THEROUX, “THE JOURNEY CAN BE EITHER YOUR DEATH OR YOUR TRANSFORMATION…WERE YOU TRANSFORMED BY YOUR JOURNEY?

Absolutely. For me it was a very spiritual experience and I like to think that I was one of these people who needed to do this journey.  Not to say that OK I’m the first person to do it but really for my own sanity. Growing up I had the feeling that I really didn’t have my own self-worth or [that] I fit in. I knew something wasn’t right about the world I grew up in and the expectations that my family and wider society had [for] me, but I felt I had something to contribute and it wasn’t something that I was going to find following a conventional course in the UK.  So at the end of the journey I had an epiphany as to what I needed to learn from it and it was a very amazing experience that I’ve been able to now articulate and better understand.   It relates to sustainability and the environmental question, ‘how do people live in this day and age so that they know they are part of the solution to a habitable planet, not part of the problem?’  So I’ve been able to get my head around a tangible answer that is now how I live my daily life and will be a part of future expeditions I do.

I IMAGINE THERE IS SOME AMOUNT OF LIBERATION IN THAT FEELING?

It’s like I have a point to my life—which I imagine some people might roll their eyes and say the point to your life is to pay the bills and to be a good citizen.  But I think everyone has a burning desire to do something that they feel passionately about.  We all have that need which I don’t think is addressed much.  We all have so many responsibilities like families, mortgages, saving for retirement, which makes it difficult to pursue a passion.  So I feel blessed to have found what my contribution and point to my life is, so in that sense it is tremendously liberating.

YOUR BOAT YOU USED ON YOUR JOURNEY WAS NAMED “MOKSHA”…WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

It’s a Sanskrit word which means ‘Liberation’ or “Freedom’.  We took it from a book written by Aldous Huxley whose best selling book was “Brave New World”.  The boat name Moksha applies to what you were saying really, where we knew that crossing an ocean by human power is going to be nothing less than grueling and will break you down [to the point] where you would find out things about yourself you had absolutely no idea about before. We were looking forward to that.  In that sense, it’s like a 40 days and 40 nights experience where you go out into the wilderness and leave all of the comforts of society behind you and have an opportunity after a certain amount of time (for me it was about 4 or 5 weeks), where you shift into this new universe or world where there is nothing you can relate to previously.  That’s when things get interesting – that is when all of these stimuli you thought were important before or you knew about yourself, beliefs, experiences become relative. And out there, in the middle of the wildness, is when things get real.  The curtains of illusions fall away and you can have a Moksha experience—a liberating experience where you see truth about yourself and other things.  It’s like a meditation almost because you can see things more clearly without having to go see a psychotherapist or spend any money on drugs (laughs).

I LIKE THAT.  SO WHAT WAS LOW POINT OF YOUR JOURNEY?

The low points were being based in a place like the bay area where we lived for about 6 months while attempting three times to cross the pacific. The first two attempts ended up in complete disaster with the boat almost being lost off the California coast.  So we ended up raising funds because we didn’t have any corporate sponsorship for the first 11 years of the journey. So we had to give talks at rotary clubs, yacht clubs…anyone who would listen to us we would give free talks to.  Then we would sell merchandise like t-shirts and selling space for names to put on the side of the boat for $20 which took a lot of time.  What became the most demoralizing was being in somewhere like the Bay Area or Cairns, Australia – we’re making friends and being assimilated to a local community and then having to say goodbye again.  So you get a taste for community and what is fundamentally necessary for the human condition.  What I didn’t realize enough before I left London was that we are a social species so by the end of the journey I realized that I am not really that great on my own.  I’m not really a loner and I do like people, society and I love community.

WHAT WAS THE MOST DANGEROUS PLACE YOU VISITED AND WHY?

Well I thought it would be some of these Muslim countries like Sudan, Syria or Indonesia.  I remember pedaling away from Australia in my boat I was warned I would be bundled up in the back of a van and never seen again.  But the opposite occurred and I found Muslim people to be lovely. The most hospitable people you could meet where it is the fundamentalist few you read about in the news who distort the truth. Some of my happiest memories were in north Sudan and Syria where I found very nice people.  The most dangerous place was probably Miami.  When we arrived after 111 days we didn’t have any money and we managed to find areas to lie down and we felt genuinely quite threatened.  I did get robbed in Indonesia, but some of the metropolitan areas I felt more in danger than in the areas that people might assume are more dangerous.

SO DID YOU MISS NORMALITY, LIKE FAMILY, RELATIONSHIPS—THAT SORT OF THING?

Yeah exactly. So this kind of lifestyle is completely dysfunctional as far as a stable relationship is concerned.  Your age catches up with you, so when you are 26 it’s not so bad because you’ll meet someone else down the road. I finished this journey when I was 40 and felt myself craving stability and a normal relationship.  By the time I peddled back up the river Thames, 13 years later, I was so sick of living by maps, even looking at a map made me want to vomit.  I was so tired of traveling and normally maps inspire you to go somewhere but you can have too much of anything.

TODAY, WE ARE GROWING UP IN A SOCIETY SURROUNDED BY TECHNOLOGY WHERE THE SMARTPHONE HAS BECOME OUR  5TH APPENDAGE FOR INSTANT GRATIFICATION. DO YOU THINK THAT TECHNOLOGY IS HINDERING OUR LIVES AND MAKING IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND EXPERIENCE A REAL ADVENTURE?

Hmmm, good question.  There are pros and cons and I don’t think there is a definitive answer but of course technology is a very powerful thing and it is here to stay.  But I can say that [I have] experienced the full gamut from analog to digital throughout my 13-year journey.  Specifically, pedaling across the Atlantic without a GPS, there was a real sense of not having anything between the environment and me and so I could really immerse myself to be in the moment.  It was a very raw and real feeling, with more of a seamless experience to live in the moment.  On the flip side, [being online] allows you to share your experiences, connect with schools, fundraise, and crowd source, which are great things. As far as today, when people travel, it’s nice to take pictures and have a record but there is a danger of taking too much gear that you have to charge, manage and carry around with you.  The trick is to try and keep it simple and finding a balance to ask ‘am I in charge of the technology or is the technology in charge of me?’  When you interact with your surroundings by seeing and sensing things in their natural state you realize the amazing world around you that technology can distract you from.

COULDN’T AGREE MORE-A GREAT POINT.  WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST WAY TO MOTIVATE PEOPLE?

Well of course in life we all get depressed and go through difficult times.  When I finished my journey I felt completely inept.  I had 13 years of doing this journey but nothing to really show for it.  So I came back with this appreciation for people who do regular 9-5 jobs.  Sometimes I think there is a perception that adventurers think that 9-5 is a bad thing. I don’t think that…I think that people who hold down a job and go to work 5 days a week to provide food for their family, do things they don’t always enjoy but looking at the bigger picture—I have a huge amount of respect for people who do that.  As an adventurer, it’s never how people perceive it.  A majority of time you’re doing something that is incredibly boring, pedaling away like a hamster on a wheel.  You are lonely, cold and sick of it—so it isn’t all that it is cracked up to be.  But of course when you read about these stories people will think ‘oh wow, that is so amazing what he’s done’—not really.  It’s actually no less repetitive and boring than most people’s life, but it sounds more romantically appealing.   As far as encouraging people, I even have a hard time motivating myself but if I look back on the thread that has connected the years of my life to where I am now—the overarching theme is that I am trying to [do] what I think is right for me.  We have a very short time on this planet and you have to do what enables you to live with yourself.  Tomorrow a bus could hit you and if I’m lying in the ICU I think it’s important to ask yourself ‘how have you been living your life?’ and ‘am I doing what I love?’  You have to try and push through those dark times of self-doubt and in the end it will become good if you maintain that sense of belief that you’re living truthfully with yourself. It’s so important to believe in yourself and something that you believe will make a difference and keep you plugging on.

“We have a very short time on this planet and you have to do what enables you to live with yourself.”

People can get obsessed on where they want to be and are too worried about what other people think.  You need to keep rooted and pursue your passion on a daily basis without thought of reward or how people will perceive you; the rewards come afterwards.  If you become obsessed about what people think about you then that ruins it and you lose your way.  The accolades and rewards come as a by-product of you living your life truthful and true to yourself.  It’s almost a paradox; we have to forget about public recognition.

YES EXACTLY.  IT’S ALMOST COUNTER INTUITIVE WHERE PEOPLE SEE THE ACCOLADES FIRST AND COMPARE EVERYTHING TO THAT.  THEY OFTEN MISS THE MEANING BEHIND “THE JOURNEY ALONG THE WAY” AND THE REWARD OF TRANSFORMATION IS GOING THROUGH THE JOURNEY, NOT THE ACCOLADES.

Yes and it’s hard because we are geared as human beings to want to be accepted.  I mean that’s social media right there. We’re looking for ways to get more Twitter followers or more likes and that’s the way so much has been driven now in terms of society—driven by how much other people think of us which I think is very dangerous.  I think that the real winners are the ones who forget about what other people think of them, forgetting about the followers and likes and just live their life truthfully and then all that other stuff comes after that.

COMFORT ZONES.  WE TALKED A LITTLE ABOUT THIS AND WE BELIEVE THAT YOU DON’T TRULY GROW UNLESS YOU STEP OUTSIDE YOUR COMFORT ZONE. YOU SHATTERED YOUR COMFORT ZONE.  WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT YOURSELF?

I remember the first day pedaling out into the Atlantic – the first day of three and half months on the water.  That was the biggest step out of my comfort zone that I had done in my life up until that point.  Seeing the land dip below the horizon astern and then silence and the quietness of the ocean suddenly there was this realization… ‘Holy crap.’ We had been talking about this journey for years but now reality was really sinking in.  Everything that reinforced the sense of who I was, that was disappearing astern very quickly.  There was a terrible fear where I was absolutely terrified to be honest and I remember saying to Steve… “maybe this is a terrible idea and maybe we should go back?” However as it happened we were already in the current heading down to Portugal so we were not going back whether we wanted to or not. Looking back on it, I think this was the seminal point of the journey.  It was the make or break and stepping off into the void of not knowing.  Having faith that it was going to work out.
What came after that point was the most incredible experience I ever had for the next two months.  It was hard and we fought like cats and we both nearly drowned but it went back to that initial pedaling away from land which is really a metaphor of stepping out of your comfort zone.  So if you can just take that leap of faith then the rewards will be multifold afterward.  You will go through a period of self-doubt, it will be tough – but ultimately that’s when you know more about yourself and who you are. When you are faced with challenges that you would not have otherwise faced, you are living in the moment.  When you have to survive it’s primal.  We do tend to get in ruts in life and go through the motions so when you step outside of that and not knowing what’s going to happen each day is terrifying but also fantastic because that’s when you really learn about yourself.  How do you deal with a near death experience and function when the shit hits the fan?  Sure people in the military have that experience but most of us don’t really know what we are really made of and I feel blessed to have a better appreciation of how I deal with things when they go wrong.

“It will be tough but ultimately, that’s when you know more about yourself and who you are.”

THAT REMINDS US THAT LIFE IS EASY WHEN THINGS ARE GOING GREAT; MONEY, HEALTH, JOBS, RELATIONSHIPS, AND YOU’RE RIDING THE WAVE… BUT IT’S THE DIFFICULT TIMES THAT DEFINE US, OUR CHARACTER AND HOW WE LIVE AND APPROACH LIFE.

Exactly, you’ve hit the nail on the head.  I think we’ve missed that and we are missing something in the modern age.  I meet people here in the US whose grandparents came across from Europe and arrived at Ellis Island—and what I love about the US is that people still have that appreciation of the pioneering spirit.  They know people in their own lifetime like their grandparents who had nothing and they were farming 40-acre plots.  Those people really lived and were living on the edge and they didn’t know if they were going to make it through the next winter or not.  Now that we have all this wealth in the west, we’ve become a little bit lazy and there is this whole generation of people with a sense of entitlement.  They think they should be entitled to a certain lifestyle and that is the dangerous part. Because when things are easy and that’s the norm then people have a sense of something missing in their lives.

SO WHAT IS NEXT? WRITING YOUR STORY?

Well my partner Tammie and I care for a place here in Colorado and have spent the last couple of years writing the book series about my journey. I was initially offered a lot of money from HarperCollins to have a ghostwriter finish the story in 8 weeks in time for the holiday season so I turned down the offer and committed publishing suicide. So for several months I was living out of my car in the Santa Cruz Mountains trying write this book.  Mentally, I was not in a very good place because a lot of the traumatic experiences I had had over the years came back but writing the book myself allowed me to put those to bed and it was a cathartic way to deal with it.

WOW.  SO WOULD YOU SAY THAT’S PART OF LIFE’S JOURNEY, THESE PEAKS AND VALLEYS WE GO THROUGH?

Yeah, I mean you’re never really there and never reach the ideal spot.  We’re always learning and we’re always making mistakes and that’s just part of life’s journey and the adventure along the way.

ZIDILIFE IS ABOUT INSPIRING PEOPLE AND HELPING THEM TAKE MEANINGFUL ACTION. IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN SHARE ABOUT PROJECTS YOU ARE INVOLVED IN OR SUPPORTING?

Well next year, we are launching a series of expeditions to learn more about what indigenous cultures have been doing for hundreds of years and bringing them to the west.  So there will be an education component to it and at some point we will be working with schools to share this knowledge and experience.  We would also love for people to come join me on these expeditions. So let’s stay in touch and as I progress we can circle back with ZIDILIFE fans and perhaps start some great campaigns together.

SOUNDS GREAT. LASTLY, DO YOU HAVE A LIFE MOTTO?

Keep it simple.

JASON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH US AND WE’RE EXCITED TO HAVE YOU HERE, HELPING PEOPLE BE INSPIRED BY YOUR JOURNEY TO MAKE THEIR LIVES MORE EXCITING AND ADVENTUROUS.

Of course and I appreciate being a part of the ZIDILIFE family and look forward to future discussions and conversations together.


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